Optimizing VMware Cloud Foundations

Full Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):

Alright. Alright. Listeners, thank you for joining us on another episode of The Bridge. This episode will be a continuation of what’s been, gosh, seemingly for me, about a month and some change of VMware based discussions. I have Hannah Duce and Kevin Carter, who are both from our partner, Rackspace, with us on the show today. Hannah and Kevin, welcome to the show.

Well, let’s start. We had Jeff Diverter on the show. I went back and looked at the episode just about a year ago. Channel Partners was late last year, in May, so I think it was probably maybe the first or second episode we released in May. So by the time this goes, it’ll probably just be around a year. Jeff is quite a character. Have you guys spent some time with Jeff? He’s got the best sneakers in the channel.

Speaker 1 (01:15):

Absolutely. Just in general, like the threads, everything about it. Yeah, it’s well done. Well, for those who didn’t have the pleasure of checking out that episode, we will make sure that our producing team puts that in the show notes. So you can check that out sort of as a companion piece. But before we jump into the issue of the day, which we’d really like to chat about, and I think we all know what that is, VMware, Broadcom, what that means. Most of the people that are tuned into the show over the past month are still trying to figure out what to do. We’re going to get there in a moment, but I’d love to learn a little bit about each of you. If you could just give us a little bit of background, how long you’ve been at Rackspace, what you did to get there, where you’re living today. Just read it out Hannah, we’ll start with you.

Speaker 2 (02:01):

Okay, cool. Yeah, so I am based out of San Antonio. I’ve been at Rackspace for almost six years. Kind of a funny journey to get here. Honestly. I come from a food and beverage retail background. Ended up in tech that is almost six years ago and started in our mainline sales and then moved into partnerships pretty soon after that. The transferable experience I’d had was I have been in services sales and working with clients in that kind of capacity for my whole career. So that transferred over nicely to Rackspace and then really, really was able to leverage a lot of that prior experience in the partnerships area. So where I work now, I lead our strategic alliances and have fun doing that. Kevin?

Speaker 3 (02:50):

Well, hello everybody. My name’s Kevin Carter. I’m the product director for the Opens sec IBU, sorry, integrated business unit. And here I am speaking in acronyms. But anyways, OpenStack doing OpenStack for a long time. I came to Rackspace in 2011, left in 2019 and I’m back in September. So I’m a boomerang Racker, just getting started. I like to joke, I mentioned this in the pre-roll, but I like to joke that I’m new and I’m still discovering everything, but I know where things are. But in terms of what kind of brought me here, Rackspace brought me to Texas. I’m a California expat coming from the Bay Area and have been at Rackspace. Well, I’ve made Texas my home because of Rackspace, so that’s what brought it.

Speaker 1 (03:47):

You called yourself a Racker. Were you there when fanatical support? Was the tagline still or it still?  Do you still say that internally?

Speaker 3:

It still is. I mean, yeah, I’ve got the, no, I don’t. But yeah, it’s not a fanatical support that was our tagline back in the day. And we’re doing a lot of internal marketing with the fanatic guy and bringing that kind of spirit back into a lot of the conversations that were rebuilding internally and also externally. Yeah.

In the Cloud Wars: Rackspace Emerges as a Trusted Advisor Amidst Uncertainty

Speaker 1 (04:39):

Well, let’s talk a little bit about that because I think for many of our listeners, depending on whether they were ever a customer or not or when they got to know the name, and let’s face it, the name is Rackspace at this point. So you guys have had quite a journey, Kevin in particular over the last decade-plus in time, both of your stints, it’s a different company from front to back. I mean starting in colo and racks into managed hosting to cloud to hybrid to bare metal to today.

I mean you guys, we do quite a bit of work with you guys around hyperscale orchestration and managed services around that. But what I would love to do, is just have some fun returning Racker on the tech side, food in bev and services business into running alliances, right at one of the stalwarts in the industry. I would love to compare commercials. So Hannah, yeah, let’s do ’em in reverse actually, Kevin, you’re going to go first. We’re in the elevator. Alright, what’s Rackspace? Rackspace? We are open-source. We are an open technology company building out data centers, and hosting cloud colo websites. We will basically, and we will do it inside of our data centers and your data centers. And so when I’m describing Rackspace, I really do describe it as we are technologists. We provide services on top of world-class, best-in-business technology. Got t. We’ve reached the next floor, right? Makes sense. All right, Hannah, I’m going to come to you. Would you say it differently?

Speaker 2 (05:52):

Maybe slightly. Not that the outcome is all that, but yeah, Rackspace has built a business around providing fanatical support and moved that into a fanatical experience where we’re looking across platforms and really able to bring together what we’re now in which is a multi-cloud hybrid world. And so as you add into that, moving into 2024 and looking forward, add another element in that of AI and what we’re doing around AI and how we’re able to bring AI to life in this new space is where everybody’s looking at what are they going to do with ai, how is that going to affect them, how should they integrate that? So I mean, I don’t disagree with anything Kevin said. I just might Yeah,

Speaker 1 (06:39):

You said it better than I did though, which is fine. Your elevator pitch. Better to put both of you on the spot. No, super interesting. I mean I have a history on the supplier side of the business myself. I’ve done a ton of VMware in my career and it’s funny, I mean, and on deals that I’ve worked, customers that I’ve worked with where we’ve ended up bringing Rackspace in, as I often say, you can buy a point expert at any individual thing, but we have a tendency in this industry to put it leaders in the integration business. Do you get what I mean by that? And today, I mean Hannah, what you said, this is a hybrid. There are workloads that belong in public cloud. There are workloads that work and are most appropriate in a private or bare metal kind of scenario. There are things that belong on the old that still work on the HP DL 360, they to you in a 40 U rack. It just depends on what the workload is. I think what is interesting about you guys is your willingness to span across them and to take responsibility and add support, sort of I guess eliminating the CIO from being in the integration business in a lot of ways. Is that a fair way for me to look at your business?

Speaker 2 (07:58):

Yeah, I like it. It’s good. I mean, we’re trying to simplify the complexity and add our own IP on top of all these great technologies, as Kevin talked about, which really ends up leading to a simplified solution for our end customers.

Speaker 1 (08:16):

Got it. Got it. Alright, well let’s just jump into the debate with two feet. And debate, I guess is a funny word. The real issue is that I think a lot of customers are still just trying to figure it out or just figure out what’s going on really in a lot of ways. So, Hannah, I’m going to start with you. I mean you had alliances, right? VMware undoubtedly, given your history has been one of those alliances. Absolutely. Probably over the six-plus years that you’ve been there, I think VMware alone has probably been purchased two or three times with no real effects on the service provider market or customers. This one was different. You were the one who got the letter from Broadcom and had to call upstairs to have a conversation about what was going on. Was that surprising to you? And just tell us a little bit about the moments after how you were thinking about, hey, we have a business that’s based around VMware and the rules are changing a little bit,

Speaker 2 (09:15):

So not a total shock. Definitely. VMware is one of our longest partnerships. I think outside of Dell may be the longest technology partnership, so 15 plus years, pinnacle partner, all of those things and have really been super tightly aligned with them. And so the team that we had around us from what could be shared was we were working together knowing that this was coming. So you just walk through that journey, not a total shock. We were anticipating when are we going to get all the different things, and what kind of communications were coming. And so yeah, it was right before Christmas got all the emails and notifications. So it was a quick call letting everybody know. And just as they came in, as a lot of people probably experienced, we were also trying to figure out what is this impact. What changes? What now, okay, I see this, I know what’s happening and we’ve just got to figure out how to navigate now.

Speaker 2 (10:17):

And so as many people know, it’s been a bit of something’s happening, you just hadn’t known the details of it. So then you fast forward a little bit, get to the more details and start to understand the impact as things were rolling out. What we’ve known from the beginning is that there’s a huge, just with the shifts in the way that VMware and Broadcom are viewing their customer base and how they want to work in the market, that there’s ample opportunity for cloud providers like us. There’s an opportunity there to help simplify some of this message. And so what we’ve learned through navigating it ourselves, we can help others to navigate as well. And I mean, I can’t speak more highly of our VMware team and just the way that they’ve tried to partner with us and help us navigate as well. So I definitely want to say that, I mean it’s been a journey. We’re still in it.

Speaker 1 (11:14):

I mean I would venture to guess that you entered this as one of the more significant VMware partners out there. So I’m sure that the news was while the packaging and you guys having to think about how the bundles would go across products and all the things that we’ve heard about and other things were all things you had to contend with. You didn’t probably have to contend with the, Hey, do I still have a relationship with VMware going forward? How did you see that affect the broader service provider market? And did you guys jump in the fray to help out any of them? Maybe tell me more about that.

Speaker 2 (11:48):

Yeah, good question. A lot of that’s been unfolding. So we needed to assess our own environment and take care of our customers that we had or that we have. So we have a very large base, to your point, we’re one of the top two CSPs with VMware, so we needed to take care of that, take care of our customers. That was P one, priority one. And then the next piece has been how do we, there’s been different discussions with different CSPs. We immediately got the termination notice from the prior program and, right on the heels of it, got the invite to the next, or not the actual invite, it was, Hey, you’re going to get an invite. So we at least had that security of being in the program. So now we’re at the place where we’re other CSPs that maybe weren’t able to be invited into the new program working through what VMware’s called the white label program. And so us being able to be A CSP to them and have those conversations is a work in progress right now.

Speaker 1 (12:53):

Yeah, I find it super interesting though because now I mean effectively, and this probably speaks to Broadcom’s view of the market, which we’ll get into a little bit later, but having other service providers operate with you as their CSP means that you are providing them support and then you are then in working up through VMware. So does change that market slightly. Yes. Kevin, let me kick over to you for a minute. I mean, you’re on the product side. I mean everybody in product is also natively in sales. I say I’ve spent my entire career in product, which means you’re talking to customers every day. I guess that’s a fair assumption. You’re saying a hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. You are not wrong. Tell me about those conversations. I mean, what were customers asking you? Where were their fears, and ultimately I guess, where have they largely been landing?

Speaker 1 (13:49):

Where they’re landing is still evolving. Kind of what Hannah was mentioning. However, what they’re talking to us about is they’re looking at us as a trusted partner to figure out where they go. And some of it is fear that whole fud, their fear, uncertainty and doubt. And so through our Rackspace partners and what we offer as a product, we’re able to give them a safe landing zone, be it a reconfiguration of their stack, new hardware, different licensing, being able to land them into an environment that makes more sense for them and optimizes their dollar. I on the OpenStack side am also over here. Well, if you’re ready to make a move, let me help you with that. We have some migrations and some capability. And in fact, what we can also do is run an OpenStack environment side by side with a VMware environment using some of your existing CapEx, so you’re not out; you’re having to buy brand new kits to support this brand new cloud and then train all of your people on brand new APIs. We can make that soft, but more importantly, we’re looking at what that strategic operation is so that we can bridge that gap for them. We can be that trusted advisor. So yes, I am absolutely in sales and that was probably the most salesy thing I could possibly say.

Speaker 1 (15:05):

In reality though, we believe it in the product organization, we are actually being that trusted advisor for these customers and creating those technical solutions that solve their problems. Yeah, I mean I love what you said about configuration because I think that’s the flexibility of working in your cloud versus having it on your gear and your data center and you’re replacing a perpetual license. The VMware skews went from whatever it was like a hundred thousand to a hundred, and everything kind of bundled in and we’ve heard reports of 15% increases to 900% increases. And a lot of that depended on configuration. To your point about reconfiguring, right? Were they on a memory-based perpetual plan and now they’re in a core-based plan? Were they just using ESX only? But now they have the full cloud fundamental, the whole suite of now you’re like, alright, maybe we don’t need to change the hypervisor, but we need to start thinking about what’s your storage orchestration or what.

Speaker 1 (16:13):

So, what do you mean by reconfiguring? You’re like, it’s not necessarily getting them away, all of them. I mean, we’ll talk about open second in a minute, but more so, we’ve got the flexibility from a gear perspective, from an approach perspective, from a knowledge perspective to sort of help you configure the matches so that the environment and the licensing and the customer’s use better match an appropriate use of their, frankly use of their dollar use of their dollar. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s optimizing their existing spend and there very well may be a price increase to do to some uncertainties or some configuration of gear that just they cannot let go of or cannot move or cannot migrate. And that’s a reality of it, and that’s unfortunate, but at the same time, we can optimize every one of those compute cycles, every one of those servers and put them to good work.

Navigating Changes: Rackspace’s Strategy Amid VMware Licensing Shift

Speaker 1 (17:07):

And this is for either of you who want to jump on this, but I mean, did you guys have products that included the VMware licensing under the base skew, and it wasn’t called out as an individual thing? And I guess I’m asking that question in the vein of did that put you in a position where you were like, geez, what did you do if that means your cost of goods sold changed on that widget? Did you have to face, are we increasing pricing? Are we breaking it out? What was your strategy around that? Unless you didn’t have products that kind of embedded the license, in which case it’s a moot question and I can move on.

Speaker 2 (17:47):

No, we definitely did. We definitely do. We have embedded platforms. VMware is embedded into the platform, and it’s built around that. So that was part of my, when we first were walking through these changes, priority number one is to protect our customers and make sure that they are in safe hands and well provided for on the platform that they’re on and that we mitigate as much as we can through things like you’re talking about. And this is what’s educated us to help us take to market and help our customers move from confusion to clarity as well. And one of those paths is optimizing the environment. So we needed to take a look at our current environment, how we optimize the best of our ability to mitigate the challenges that we are being faced with, as well as just work through what’s right, where everything needs to live.

Speaker 2 (18:41):

Are these the right pieces? So then you can really take what we’ve done internally and take it out to customers as well, a similar process and you walk through, it’s like a decision tree. You can optimize and adapt. You can look at alternative platforms and those could be what we also try to provide our customers choice, customer choice on this. So we’ve been with OpenStack, and I’m going to jump into Kevin’s lane for a second. You’ve got OpenStack as an option for re-platforming. You’ve got a variety of things. We have hyperscalers as well. There are different options out there. We just need to navigate and work with our customers to understand what makes the most sense for their bigger needs, and where they are headed long-term term and if we can help them on that journey to maximize their ROI

Speaker 1 (19:32):

Got it. Kevin, I guess this could go for either of you. I mean the customers you speak to, are they using this as an opportunity to ask the question at least, is it time to consider something different? Does that enter most of the conversations or some conversations? Conversation? Yeah. I mean, to say it wouldn’t be would be a lie, right? It is. It absolutely is. But we are helping them be like I said, that trusted advisor. So they are asking, is it time to move? And the answer is maybe not. Do you need a license workload that is very tied to a VMware ecosystem that gives you that security, that capability, that one thing that you need, then stay where you are, and they’ll let us optimize that for you? If you don’t and you have the wherewithal to re-platform or move or you’re interested in an open-source technology play, let us help you with that too.

Speaker 1 (20:29):

This may be an overly simplistic question, but I’m going to ask it anyway. What are the forks in the road that usually become the things that dictate their path? Is it an investment in staff? How much of the administration they’re doing locally? How much of the VMware staff? Those are the kinds of questions I’m asking you. What are the things you’re trying to elicit in that conversation that generally become the forks in the road to go one way or the other? I’ll give my answer and then I’ll defer A lot of them, I mean, from my point of view, we’re trying to figure out how we bring the customer to the technology. And so if the customer is very dev centric, they’re using a lot of SDKs, they’re using a lot of APIs, that is just their normal everyday mode of operandi. That’s a pretty good fork.

Speaker 1 (21:17):

That’s a good indicator. Like, hey, maybe I have a programmable infrastructure that’s literally just a collection of APIs that all kind of work together. Let me help you with that help you train your staff, and get you into that ecosystem. Yeah, I think that’s one of the clear indicators I’m looking for. If they aren’t that, if they have a deeply ingrained IT staff that has been doing VMware since VMware’s inception, probably you could absolutely make the argument to re-platform, but how much impact is that to your business, and is that really worth it right through our optimizations? Could we make it so that the cost impact or changes go unnoticed, and then we move on, and everybody’s happy, and we continue to be your trusted advisor and offer you some support? I’ll send it to Hannah. Hannah, anything to add?

Speaker 2 (22:14):

I think Kevin hit on a lot of it. I will say one other component. When you look at if they’re deeply invested and they’re going to have a leaning somewhere, just as you talk through the conversations, what’s their maturity level within VMware? Do they have a mission-critical workload that has to be run on VMware? There are those. They won’t certify it otherwise. So those are clear things that you need to stay, and then that gives a trigger as well for not only optimization but what I’d call tuning or extracting more value from these bundles. So that’s something that Rackspace has spent many years doing as well. Okay, maybe you’ve just had vSphere before, but you’re going to the full VCF, your more cloud foundation stack. Are there elements within that we should look to leverage now because you’re going to get ’em, so look to leverage, and is there some tech stack displacement that needs to happen? Rationalization really starting; you could speed up your modernization in some areas, too, just from that, the value that you’re going to get from this stack now. So that’s another

Speaker 1 (23:22):

Aspect. No, that’s a really compelling thought process. I hadn’t even really thought about it. I had the people in my head and the age of existing gear maybe. I mean, there are a million little details you can put in that you’ll go through, but the idea is that many people are running other people’s applications on VMware. They’re just not going to support doing something else is obviously a reason to stay. Were you in any situations where you were sort of on the software vendor to come up with some kind of a stance on this? I’m thinking maybe in healthcare EHR areas like that, where you were sort of waiting on them to say, yeah, well, we’re recommending cloud foundation or something along those lines?

Speaker 2 (24:02):

Yeah, I mean, a lot of times, you are tied to their approval or stamp approval certification. So it can go both ways. You’re either waiting for them to approve or maybe now it’s VCF more. You’ve got ISVs who are looking at other options as well. So maybe now they’re considering whether we need to certify on open options or something like that. So I haven’t seen a ton of that yet, but there have been lots of discussions.

Speaker 1 (24:34):

That sounded almost like a prediction. So maybe that’s my next question. Let’s have some fun. Our listeners know I like to get people to look over the turn the calendar and throw some stuff out there. So today, and it obviously depends on who you ask, but I don’t know, something like VMware is probably 80 to 85% of the hypervisor market, at least where the hypervisor is sort of a thing that’s run by an, we’ll have to take the hyper-scale out of that for a moment, but where do you think we are in 18 months? Does this change that or just leave that in place? Hannah, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (25:14):

Do I see a change? Oh gosh, I see VMware, Broadcom’s been pretty clear about the fact that they want to focus on these top strategies that they’re calling them. So I do feel like there’s going to be a natural kind of moving away from maybe some of the smaller ones as support models are changing; things like that are just changing. And I think it’s by design to some extent. So I think there’s going to be a natural shift in some of that, and I think that’s maybe intended and okay, so I’m not going to give you one hard number of what I think it will go to. No,

Speaker 1 (25:57):

No, it’s totally fine. I think it was a great answer. I mean, I think if I read that back, you’re effectively saying, yeah, and correct me if I’m wrong on this, by the way, but you’re effectively saying, yeah, I mean, I’m expecting a move away, but it’s probably the move away that Broadcom wants, right? At the end of the day. If they’ve demonstrated to anything and their various acquisitions that they know how to make money in a good way, that’s absolutely a fact. Yeah, if you think about the V and what the VMware ecosystem became, I probably would’ve done the exact same thing. It’s expensive to try to be all things to all people. You can use this by itself, you can use it with the bundle, you can use it outside of the bundle, you can use it with this other person, and you can use the storage orchestration. It just becomes this thing that becomes very unmanageable. So I think if our listeners, maybe smarting a little bit or concerned, are honest with themselves, they probably would’ve been like, yeah, I probably would’ve done the same thing. But I get what you’re saying. You’re like, yeah, there’s going to be attrition, but it’s probably planned attrition as Broadcom’s really looking at the profitability of their business.

Speaker 2 (27:01):

And I think you’re going to see a stickiness increase because I think what’s going to happen is that extraction of the value of the VCF bundle. So you’re going to see some modernization efforts, speed up, and things like that using that because they’ve decided we’re not moving away, and then we have other areas that will boom as well. So Kevin, what do you think? Anything to add? 

Speaker 3 (27:20):

I think it’s the year of the Linux desktop. Yeah, I believe KBM is going to have its day in the sun, right? I mean, it’s out there. It’s been out there, right? The KBMs are not new, right? We’re talking Kernel Two six, come on. It’s been around for a while, but it’s very mature. You look at some of the different product offerings that you see around Red Hat with their productizing ver. They’ve got the RHV, and there’s overt out there. We’ve got other providers doing other smaller cloud management platforms that are all built into KVM, and they’re all kind of clamouring like, Hey, KVMs here, and we’re doing a thing. We do OpenStack, which is all KVM-based. And so, I think KVM is a fantastic hypervisor and while, but then again, that’s not an opinion that I have recently created. I’ve always thought that. So yeah, that’s my answer. Makes sense. So, it does bring up an interesting question that I don’t think is getting as much coverage right now. Broadcom spun out the Horizon business, correct? That goes to private equity like it is operating as an independent company.

Speaker 1 (28:35):

Okay, got it. That brings, I mean, this could launch an entirely next half hour of this conversation, which we’re not going to be able to do. But Kevin, I love your point about the Linux desktop. Have we abstracted enough value out of the OS when we’re thinking about things like iPad OS and Android OS, and maybe there’s a threat to the dominance of the Windows desktop operating system that might be sort of at the end of this chain? Is all this madness going on right now? Actually, no. KVM runs Windows virtual machines perfectly. It’s actually been a huge point of what we’ve been doing inside of what we’re rebuilding inside of our cloud, which is getting modernized. And that’s not just on the Linux front, right? If you want to run Temple os, I want to be able to enable you to do that, which is a random, weird operating system that no one’s ever heard of.

Speaker 1 (29:31):

But Windows it runs perfectly, right? And there are KBM drivers that accelerate it. It’s got some really fantastic capabilities just into it. On top of that, there’s a lot of what’s out there in accelerated virtual desktops. We also have those clients available, and we can bring them in using KBM. So, no, I don’t think Windows is on the decline inside of hypervisor space because of this shakeup or because of KBM. I think if anything, it goes back to, I think it was Hannah’s point originally that this is just a choice. This is just a different hypervisor that solves the same problem that customer needs just in a different form factor. So, one last question before we have some fun and if someone’s out there thinking about whichever route they go, generally speaking, the service providers want the workloads that they want and sometimes the workload isn’t in the fashion that the platform is capable of supporting. There are obviously going to be transformation projects that are not subscription services that have to happen to get somebody in the right tooling. These are the kinds of services that Rackspace provides on the way in as well, correct? That is correct. Or move to some new optimized platform. Absolutely right? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (30:51):

Yes. So we operate in a couple of different fashions. You’ve got professional services, which is a kind of traditional statement of work, and then you have our elastic engineering. So, for various technologies and use cases, it allows a customer to be more flexible in the way that they’re consuming those services. So they come in buckets of hours, and then it’s more ongoing project base to help and we provide a pod of people or experts around a certain area, but those people can be swapped out as projects change. So, it allows flexibility. Got it. It’s cloud-like services if you will.

 

From Books to Apps: Current Reads and More

Speaker 1 (31:30):

I like it. It’s been a great conversation, guys. Lots to think about. I think this will be a great companion piece to the four or five other conversations we’ve had over recent weeks. It’ll probably end up, this will end up in our VMware resource center, and we’re just trying to help customers understand the optionality, understand what’s out there, think about this really more in terms of what they’re trying to deliver and less about what they’re trying to deliver it on. I think that the latter is a matter of existing expense and existing resources, and what makes the most sense in terms of how you’re paying for it perpetually on gear hosted, what have you. And obviously, we’re here on the Bridgepointe side to help customers walk through that. Rackspace, thank you again for your partnership. It’s been a long-lasting partnership, and thank you, one of our premier partners, so thrilled to have that. Let’s have some fun questions. We’ll get ’em out of the way; then we’ll get you onto the rest of your day. So I’ll surprise each of you in the opposite order with the questions, so we’ll make it a little bit easier. So, I’m going to start with an easy one hat. I’m going to go to you first on this one. What are you reading right now? What’s on your end table?

Speaker 2 (32:42):

Oh my gosh, I don’t even know.

Speaker 1 (32:45):

Fiction business, where are you?

Speaker 2 (32:48):

There is a fiction book. It’s historical fiction. I’m trying to think of the name of it. It’s on my Kindle, so I never see the name on the front page.

Speaker 1 (32:58):

Alright, Kevin. Kevin, what are you reading right now?

Speaker 1 (33:05):

It’s Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Common. I’m terrible with the name. It’s trying to figure out how to make adjustments to your business and what you’re doing, how you’re developing it, but also sometimes, it’s not necessarily the best idea to run headfirst into things. So you take a step back, analyze the situation, but make a decision nonetheless. Totally. There’s no analysis paralysis. Right. Alright, well, it makes sense. Yeah, that’s what I’m reading right now. Our COO says all the time, he’s always like, sometimes we got to go slow to go fast. That’s right. I guess it’s kind of the same idea that’s like the NASA saying, right? Is slow as fast, or what is it? Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. Sorry. There you go.

Speaker 2 (34:00):

Oh, there you go.

Speaker 1 (34:02):

I like that. Well, then I’m going to surprise you with this next question. I threw Hannah into the deep end of the pool. Alright, so we had Covid, and I’m not having fun with Covid when I say this, but whatever the next human disruption occurs, depending on what you believe, maybe the robots take over, maybe it’s the zombie apocalypse, who knows? But we’re all huddled in, and you have only one app that still functions on your phone. The issue is you get to choose which one it is. Only one app I stump and all the services behind said apps continue to function. I have to imagine. Well, I think, listen, you have to judge. I mean, you can always share what you think. This future I think in your answer so that, but I mean give me some thoughts on it. It’s got to be the music. Well, I use Apple Music, but I’m not going to pigeonhole myself into that. The music apps continue to; I can just go hit download on everything that matters and keep a little copy in case it goes offline. I’m like Star-Lord with a Zoom walking around and in a spaceship somewhere.

Speaker 1 (35:17):

Hannah, what’s your app?

Speaker 2 (35:18):

I think it might be the podcast app.

Speaker 1 (35:20):

There you go.

Speaker 2 (35:21):

I listen to a lot of podcasts.

Speaker 1 (35:23):

Make sure you download this one before the world ends so that you can refer back to it. Well, fantastic. Well, I appreciate it, guys. Appreciate. It’s funny the way Kevin, you were like, well, are there rules on this? I’ve offered no rules on this, so I’ve gotten crazy questions. Some were like, well, I got to have ESPN. I’m like, well, wait a minute, are we playing sports? I’m like, I don’t know what’s happening in the world at the time. Who chose e espn? The best answer I think I ever got was the flashlight app. Oh, there you go. I don’t know what else is going on, so at least I know I could turn the phone, I could see around, see mine, mine’s rooted in the cloud, right? If the Apple Music app is working, then the streaming’s working, then the cloud is working, and then we’re fine.

Speaker 1 (36:01):

Right? And everything’s good. Exactly. Well, Hannah and Kevin, it was a pleasure getting to chat with you guys today and getting to know you a little bit. I thoroughly enjoyed the interplay with the two of you as well. It was fun. I don’t always get two guests on at the same time. I appreciate hearing from you guys on this topic, and I’m sure it was very useful to our listeners. I’m looking forward to having the opportunity to chat with both of you again. I’m looking forward as well. Thank you. Yes, thank you so much. Appreciate it. You got it. And for our listeners out there, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope it was useful and we’re looking forward to seeing you on another episode of The Bridge. Thanks so much for hanging with us.

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